i hope this link works for everyone.
if you can watch this video, i think you will find it very interesting how closely scientology resembles the watchtower society.
for example, the watchtower's 'apostates' equate to scientology's 'suppressives.
The Watchtower's 'disfellowshipping' equates to Scientology's 'disconnection.'
As with all cults, a complete nobody can join and become a somebody, finally achieving the sense of belonging to something, of having peers, regardless of how ridiculous it may be.
i hope this link works for everyone.
if you can watch this video, i think you will find it very interesting how closely scientology resembles the watchtower society.
for example, the watchtower's 'apostates' equate to scientology's 'suppressives.
I hope this link works for everyone. If you can watch this video, I think you will find it very interesting how closely Scientology resembles the Watchtower Society. For example, the Watchtower's 'apostates' equate to Scientology's 'suppressives.'
someone with influence needs to persuade the gb to add a live chat feature to the website.. i was strolling through the mormon site out of curiosity and noticed they had a live chat option.
golly, i can't pass this up.
i decided to talk to jake and spencer.
writer lawrence wright discussed his book, thirteen days in september, regarding the camp david peace summit on c-span's book tv.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?321756-1/book-discussion-thirteen-days-september.
the transcript below begins at 11:40 on the video counter:.
Writer Lawrence Wright discussed his book, Thirteen Days In September, regarding the Camp David peace summit on C-SPAN's Book TV.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?321756-1/book-discussion-thirteen-days-September
The transcript below begins at 11:40 on the video counter:
"The struggle for peace at Camp David is a testament to the enduring force of religion and the difficulty of shedding mythologies that lure societies into conflict.
"Let’s begin with the biblical concept of the Promised Land, the legend that is at the root of this conflict.
"In Genesis, God speaks to Abraham in a dream, and promises to give him and his descendants the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, a territory that would encompass southern Turkey, western Iraq, parts of Saudi Arabia, all of Syria, Jordan, Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai, and half of Egypt.
"Later, God makes a similar pledge to Moses as he leads his people out of Egypt, although the boundaries are now from the Red Sea to the Euphrates. On another occasion, God tells Moses that the Promised Land is really Canaan, which is an entity that is much more like modern Israel, including the West Bank and much of southern Lebanon. Defining borders has always been a problem in the Middle East, evidently even for God.
"When the wandering Israelites reached the river Jordan, God draws Moses up to Mount Nebo, and says, “This is the land that I promised to Abraham and his descendants, and you have the opportunity to see it, but I will not let you cross over.” And so Moses was able to look out from Mount Nebo and see all the way to the Mediterranean Sea, and then he passed away at the age of 120, having delivered his people out of Egypt and through the wilderness of Sinai.
"Now, at this point, God instructs Moses’ successor, Joshua, to take the Israelites into the Promised Land, saying, 'Every place you set foot I have given you.' However, the land is not vacant. The story of Joshua’s conquest of the Promised Land is one of the most shocking events in the Bible. Cities are burned to the ground, populations are wiped out, every man, woman, child, even the livestock, all slaughtered on the Lord’s instruction to kill every living thing. In that way the children of Israel finally came into possession of the Promised Land.
"One of the many problems with the Biblical account is that, during the time of Exodus, all of this territory was part of the ancient Egyptian empire. The 31 kings that Joshua is said to have executed were all paying taxes to the pharaoh before, during and after the supposed Israelite invasion. From the earliest times, the Egyptian people showed a terrific talent for bureaucracy. They kept extensive records. There’s no historical or archeological evidence that the Israelites were ever in Egypt.
"The Bible records that 603, 550 Israelite men above the age of 20, plus their wives and children and various hangers-on, a hoard estimated to be 2 million people, spent 40 years wandering in the Sinai on their journey to the Promised Land. But 2 million people, lined up 10 abreast, would stretch more than a hundred and fifty miles, more than the entire width of the Sinai Peninsula. There’s no evidence of their presence in the Sinai.
"Archaeologists have excavated most of the cities that Joshua is said to have razed. Many were not inhabited at the time or were not destroyed. On the other hand, there are abundant remains of Egyptian military outposts and administrative centers that testify to the imperial rule of one of the most powerful empires in the ancient world. So, even if the Exodus did occur in some fashion, the Israelites were making a journey from one part of Egypt to another. The Bible doesn’t mention this.
"The most likely explanation for the origin of the Israelites is that they were themselves the Canaanites. DNA studies have indicated that Jews and Palestinians are very closely related. Both of them are descended from the Canaanites. Genetically, they’re the same people. Both have been in this place thousands of years."
just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.
it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.
they need to stop it.
You raise some good points, Simon.
First, one must discern the distinction between Christian dis-fellowshipping (1 Cor. 5:11) and shunning (2 John 9-11). To understand what Christian dis-fellowshipping is, one must understand what Christian fellowshipping is: A sharing of spiritual association. To discontinue spiritual association with a "brother" who is an unrepentant evildoer (defined at 1 Cor. 5:11) does not require refusing to greet such ones in normal social situations. Paul said to "keep this one marked, stop associating with him...yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." The only persons Christians are warned about greeting are former Christians who have rejected "the teaching of the Christ." (2 John 9-11)
I feel that dis-fellowshipping and/or shunning should be a strictly personal decision, and should not be mandated by any organization.
Some JWs feel it is proper to shun inactive family members they encounter at family funerals.
today's wt study (nov 15, 2014 page 4, par 4.. the governing body in jerusalem sent the apostles peter and john to these samaritan converts, and they laid their hands on them, and they began to receive holy spirit.
(acts 8:5, 6, 14-17) .
there are multiple references to acts 15 whereby "the apostles and older men" were the governing body.. i have never noticed this applied to "the apostles" only in acts 8:14 before.. is this another new item to reinforce the concept of the governing body?.
http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/minimoog-898174-gilead-grad-talk-59th-class/
Listen to Fred Franz explain that the first century Christian congregation had a governing body of one--Christ Jesus--and that Christ Jesus remains the sole governing body of today's Christian congregation.
with all the change over on here--has this been covered already---please remove if it had and is a duplicate.. http://www.silentlambs.org/jworg-ibsascandal.htm.
hi to the group!.
i have a question about a quote that ray franz made, and i am quoting him, his quote is as follows: page 283 of "crisis of conscience" top of the page:.
fred was saying - in his comments, he stated that some were questioning the society's position (set forth in a recent watchtower) that jesus christ is the mediator only for the "anointed" ones and not for the other millions of jehovah's witnesses.
while there are not too many currently defending the watchtower in this discussion forum, it happens from time to time.
and quite often, there may be new people and lurkers reading these discussions.
i just wanted you to ponder these questions.
'committeechairman,' I appreciate your participation in this forum, and I hope you will continue to post comments. Please do not feel I am beating up on you by my following observations.
A certain sentence of yours exemplfies the problem most JW elders have. You wrote: "I know that you believe I'm f-ing up peoples lives by serving as an elder, but I continue to hold on to this because I can help people behind the scenes by having this authority."
I think I know what you meant by "having this authority," and I'm guessing you would like to be able to rephrase that comment, but I believe it is very revealing. It exemplifies the problem I had with JW elders throughout my 40+ years as an active JW. Most, if not all, of the elders I knew mistook responsibility for authority. Persons who view themselves as having a responsibility usually consider that they are also accountable. Persons who view themselves as having authority often do not, except to those having greater authority. I believe bullies are persons who fail to recognize their accountability for their actions toward "lesser ones."
The Watchtower Society holds all clergymen responsible--and accountable--for the errors of their respective religious organizations. This may explain some of the less than friendly responses to the participation in this forum of a current JW elder. I don't know you or your circumstances, but I wonder if you've considered the loss of authority as the reason you find it so hard to resign your eldership.
I restate my appreciation for your participation here, and I believe you are not the only current elder who participates in this forum.
it seems like the list of people who are accusing him of rape and sexual assault is growing every day.
i'm skeptical of single accusations but the number of people and the similar stories seem overwhelming now.. it's not a conviction but to the court of public opinion ... guilty?.
.
I am sick of hearing the "smoke" and "fire" analogies. Smoke is evidence of a fire. So far in the case of Bill Cosby, there hasn't been one bit of evidence that the accusers were not willing participants, much less that the events ever occurred. One accuser claimed Cosby gave her two pills and told her to take them. She did. She also said this happened on multiple occasions. The interviewer asked, "Can you understand why people will assume what occurred was consensual?" The accuser replied, "I can see why you would phrase it that way." The number of accusers is irrelevant if not one can produce evidence to back up an allegation. These accusations are nothing more than "bar talk," and anyone who gives them any creedence is naive, to say the least. There are people who will say or do anything for 15 minutes of attention. Furthermore, screw the "court of public opinion" in which George Zimmerman stands convicted of "murdering" Trayvon Martin even though he was found not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a televised trial. Cosby still gets paid for his NBC sitcom which got pulled. He is no loser!
